Mike Steele and the GOP were for Medicare cuts before they were against them, or they were against cuts after they were for them -- it's getting so ridiculous I'm confused.... Soon they'll be proclaiming the need for climate change legislation, blaming Dems for dragging feet on....

The fact is it's not the $100 billion per year that truly bothers Republicans. After all, past evidence shows them to be spendthrifts with our money. No, what bothers them is the $100 billion per year is going towards something they don't support and the Dems do, i.e. partisan fighting as usual. (Not to mention the campaign and lobby $$ falling out their back pockets).

It's not the cost or the budget deficit, it's the politics. And meanwhile 40-50 million people remain uninsured.

According to Sen. Grassley, he/she who shouts the loudest gets his attention and anything like polls be damned. So most people who work or are busy with family, etc., who can't attend these town hall meetings are ignored or are less meaningful to Sen. Grassley, as opposed to those constituents who get bused in -- oops, I mean who have the time to attend such meetings...?

How is it the voters in Iowa keep putting this guy in office? I was about to say that he's an idiot but rather the blame is on the voters...

Way to go Lawrence!



Exactly, Republicans demonize government-funded (not run) health care as socialism and evil, yet they're too gutless to repeal Medicare.... Oh, and Rep. Culberson receives government-funded health care like all others in Congress. If he felt it was so awful, he could always stop using it and seek out private insurance -- what do you say to that Rep. Culberson? Or will you dodge that question also...?

Very well said:

I still contend health care reform is over. The GOP and the fringe right will just move on to something else they find “objectionable” like this absurd accusation that voluntary counselling amounted to a panel of experts determining who should and should not live, the senior citizens seem overwhelmingly content to suckle at the public teat in regards to medicare while giving everyone else the bird, the insurance industry is playing both sides, half the Democrats are spooked by their own shadows, and the other half are in bed with the FIRE sector.

It is just over. And the Democrats have no one to blame but themselves. If the Republicans had majorities like the Democrats have right now, they would have abolished the IRS and the Department of Education, Bernie Madoff would be running social security, there would be an oil well in every backyard and off every inch of coast, we’d have mandatory prayer in schools, and the defense department budget would be doubled so we could have excellent adventures in Iran while we liberate Georgia from oppressive Russian rule. And we’d be doing it all with a top marginal rate of 3%.

It does seem like the Republicans can rule but can't govern, and the Democrats, well, can't seem to do either... They're on the right side of the issues but it's as if somebody needs to slap them all in the face and remind them of this fact.

About the government stimulus programs, Drew Matus, Senior U.S. Economist at BofA Merrill Lynch, recently wrote, "Coming at a key moment in the evolution of the economy, this boost was a welcome event that likely helped to prevent a bad situation from getting even worse."

True enough, yet the right-wing will choose to prematurely judge and conclude the stimulus is a bust.

For some proof to the contrary, click here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here and here. (I could've made the list longer).

For those who understand economics, if the government is going to elevate spending it should do so during recessionary times -- and this current downturn was in jeopardy of easily cascading into a full blown depression (oh, how we quickly forget). Funny, not too long ago that didn't stop the GOP-controlled government from spending like crazy during non-recessionary times.

But now they're newborn deficit hawks, quick to condemn the stimulus effort. Hilarious.

Pass something -- Obama will fix it. Let's hope.

I think most of us can agree, the free market can very often be a wonderful thing. I emphasize "often," meaning not always. For some (crucial) aspects of life, that old invisible hand just does not suffice. As it turns out, health care is one of them.

The Anonymous Liberal sums it up nicely:

Of course, if we were to let "liberty and market forces" do the rationing when it comes to health care for the elderly, the result would be no health care for most elderly Americans. That's because elderly people consume a lot of health care and therefore it makes no economic sense for private insurers to cover them (at least at affordable rates). That's why we have Medicare in the first place. That's the problem Medicare was designed to solve. It is thanks to the "government bureaucrats" that grandma gets to go to the doctor at all.

Simply put, but too simple for the public that is showing up at town halls, fired up with rage, fearing socialism and government takeover, all the while many of whom are happily enrolled in Medicare...?

• Democrats big problem: they reason, think and depend on facts, and they expect the same of others.
  
  "I think it is very hard because [Democrats] don't have the message machine the Republicans do," said George Lakoff, a UC Berkeley linguistics professor who has advised some Democrats on how to sharpen their message. "The Democrats still believe in Enlightenment reason: If you just tell people the truth, they will come to the right conclusion."
  
  
• "Adolf Hitler was for exterminating the weak, not just the Jews and stuff, and socialism -- that's what's going to happen," spoken by a woman who held a sign of Obama's image superimposed as a Nazi, and who's chronically ill mother gets expensive treatments thanks to "socialized" health care (Medicare). The amount of ignorance prevalent in this debate is astonishing.
  
  
• Worth a listen. Ronald Reagan in 1961 predicting much of what we're hearing today, that through Medicare our government will eventually take over our health care system, our freedom of choice, our way of life. Didn't happen, all fabricated lies to scare and frighten. Much like today.
  
  
• Newt Gingrich was apparently for latter-years counseling before he was against it. The hell with the actual policy or helping people, if the Dems are for it, he's suddenly against it.
  
  
• Michele Bachmann continues to delight the masses with her comedy act. Her latest crazed moment of humor: she criticized AmeriCorp, describing it as a nefarious government program that has "re-education" camps to brainwash our youth, and saying "as a parent, I would have a very, very difficult time seeing my children do this." Guess what? Her son recently signed up.
  
  
• A great fact-check page that clears up many lies being circulated about the health care bill.
  
  
• Out of the many hundreds of pages making up the proposed health care bill, if this is the best they could come up with, a fabricated lie about a "death panel," then it tells me there is quite a bit of good stuff in the bill.
  
  
• Regarding the nearing-end-of-days counseling, which would be paid for by the government, all the choices involved are made by the individual and no one else. If the person decided that he or she wished to try to live to be 200 years old, then the advice received leading up to that decision would be paid for. In fact, the provision specifically bans euthanasia as it's against states laws. So you see it's quite the opposite of "death" counseling.
  
  
• George Stephanopoulos schools Newt. Corrects him about the health advisor claim and about what isn't in the bill. But love the way Newt has a problem with our trusting the government -- the same government he didn't seem to have a problem with regarding torture, illegal wiretaps, lies spread to get us into Iraq, Katrina, the politically stacked Justice Dept., etc. etc. He's OK with THAT government, apparently.

It's my understanding the cash-for-clunkers program was deemed a "failure" by Republicans because it was so popular it quickly ran dry of the money it was initially budgeted, requiring the House to pass additional funding. Sounds similar to the GOP's concern about a public health care option, that it would be so wildly popular it would be a disaster -- driving private insurance companies out of business.

The program has also been a success in lowering CO2 emissions, a less mentioned goal.

It's funny how GW's failures were spectacular failures, and yet Obama's failures are, well, sucesses.

Unlike the many kooks on his side, David Frum has at least thought a bit farther than the nose on his face:

What would it mean to “win” the healthcare fight?

For some, the answer is obvious: beat back the president’s proposals, defeat the House bill, stand back and wait for 1994 to repeat itself.

The problem is that if we do that… we’ll still have the present healthcare system.

Many on the right aren't viewing the current health care debate as an opportunity to fix something that is broken, but rather they're viewing it more as just another in a series of partisan opportunities to hopefully make Obama and the Dems look bad. That's it, to gain political points, period.

But as Frum says, even if his side "wins" this one, we'll still have the same broken system that needs fixing. However, by once again stalling with the needed remedies (first in 1994) means the problems will grow increasingly more massive in size, to the point where whenever we get around to addressing health care reform again, the cures could be so outlandishly expensive at that point that any constructive fix will be out of the question.

For the GOP, it's just another case of winning the battle, losing the war. Unfortunately, many Americans on their side are not thinking beyond their noses, just reacting emotionally, allowing themselves to be manipulated and used by deep-pocket corporate interests. Ultimately these citizens are fighting for that which works against their own interests (ala tax cuts for the wealthy).

And speaking of fighting, these town hall charades have devolved from shouting and screaming, to now pushing and shoving, and soon it will be serious harm or worse. You think any responsible, sane Republican will finally say enough already before the inevitable happens? Doubtful.

If there's ever the opportunity to open mouth and say something stupid (and untrue), she never passes it up.

"Not Have An Intelligent Debate"

Dick Armey's lobby group, FreedomWorks, the outfit that brought you the many tax revolt tea parties, is now spearheading harassment efforts to disrupt health care reform discussions at town hall meetings.

Apparently the last thing this lobbyist-backed group wants is for people to "have an intelligent debate" on the issue with their congressional reps. No, better to shout, scream, and disrupt -- typical gang-like intimidation tactics ala FLA 2000 when thugs stormed the recounting of votes, halting the process.

Another instance where people are being manipulated and used at the behest of corporate power and greed. And people just oblige and go along, like mindless cult followers. Incredible.